Scientific backing 90 & 45 explained in two pages

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by DONVINELAND, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. DONVINELAND

    DONVINELAND Bobtail Member

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    Nov 15, 2010
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    A question for all and any Werner drivers presently. Does Werner still carry those yellow pamphlet : that teaches how to scientifically back up at a 90 or 45 alley dock? I attended Werner in 2005 and was struggling very hard with backing. In 2001 at the local truck driver school,i asked the head instructor for some sort of scientific pointers. He laughed and said " there is no such thing. You either get it or you don't! Have you ever heard the horrible stories of newbies paying other people to back their trucks into docks for them? Yes that was me! I was so scared ; i tried to escape backing and, i signed on with a flatbed company. My God, i wonder how many people quit trucking because they don't get it. I nearly did, even after driving a side loader delivering soda for three yrs. These have one fixed trailer axle and no overhangs to account for. However, give me a trailer with a tandem axle and overhang : i would be in no man's land. There were no Youtube at that time. The books only explained so much and even on truckers forum's the explanations were sparse. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then how much is a video worth? A company called Halvor Lines had a driver who made some vcr tapes . These tapes cost over $500 back then to ship. I did the free trial thing ;got all the tapes ;copied the one for backing and sent them back. The things i learned were (1) If a small or big angle is created between tractor and trailer -very important- with steer tires straight ; trailer will continue in the direction of jack without any further input from steering wheel.(2) If backing off a street into an entrance the set up should end with the tractor facing 90 degree from the entrance or straight ahead and the steer tires straight. The passenger side mirror should now eliminate the blind spots where cars are overtaking on your right.(3) If said position is held , it should prevent crushing of the fins on the side of the tractor. (4) This is the best position to chase the trailer or straighten the tractor and trailer. + This video did not mention the trailer tandems or overhang .It did not speak about measured distances or a target on the ground to rotate the tandems on. It did not mention that the real aim of backing was to square the trailer in front of the space, pullup and the straight back into the space. STOP! The greatest rookie mistake i made was to believe that the aim of backing is to put the trailer in the space without a pull up. How utterly wrong i was. 90% of all backing should follow this process(A) Square the trailer with the entrance of the space(B)Pull up(C) Check both flat mirrors that the space can be seen equally on both sides(D)Now do straight back and put trailer in space. The other 10% trying to put the the trailer into the space rather than squaring the trailer to the entrance of the space. This should only be done ,if there is not enough forward room to rotate the trailer square to the space or dock or the forward room is less than the length of your tractor and trailer straight.

    Yes that little Werner pamphlet would lead me into a world of discovery. Please, i must now clarify the phrase "scientific" backing. Most drivers would say scientific my a!! Now i was told in high school that the concept of science can be equated to one word measurable or quantifiable. Also, there is another little qualifier: repeatable. Thus if the principles espoused by this pamphlet are measurable and can be repeated. Then it can be inferred that they are scientific. If some thing is measurable then we must have measurements. What measurements did this pamphlet give in regards to backing.

    If a 90 degree or 45 alley dock is to be attempted say at a dock between two trucks . A certain distance must be accounted for. Now as we discussed before; the aim of backing is to rotate the trailer around a point and square it with the entrance of the space. How do we decide where this point is? How near or far? After rotation the back of the trailer will be the nearest point towards the space and the parked trucks.The point of rotation is at the tandems and it is further away from the parked trucks or the parking space. This distance from the back of the trailer to the point of rotation is called trailer swing or overhang. How do we measure this distance? You pace off from front tire on tandem to the ICC bumper. We now have our measurement . Let us satisfy the second qualifier; repeatability. Wherever the tandems are on the trailer pace off the distance to the ICC bumper. Set up tractor and trailer at 45 degree to space. Walk to the tractor to the left of the space;position your self at the tractors right head lamp;pace off the same distance straight out from the headlamp. Place a marker on the ground. Get back inside your truck; rotate your tandems around this marker on the ground. After trailer is square with space;pull up and straight back in the space. This how i learned scientific backing from that Werner pamphlet!
     
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  3. pattyj

    pattyj Road Train Member

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    So with all the scientific pointers you gave how long did it take you you learn how to back?Back in the day when I couldn't back to save my life,if someone tried teaching me how to back the way you described no offence but I would ask someone else.Trucking isn't rocket scientist and shouldn't be taught as such.It's a basic carreer.People shouldn't overthink the backing and one who is teaching backing shouldn't over talk the process because no one is going to get it.Make it as easy as possible.You mentioned you use to give drivers money to back your trk,lol.Not laughing at you just getting a mental picture of it.Anyway I knew drivers that would give yard jockies money to back their trl into a tight spot.
     
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  4. CondoCruiser

    CondoCruiser The Legend

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    It could be broke down into geometry and angles but there are too many variables to say this is how it's done. You have different wheel bases, different KPRA lengths, and different amounts of swing spaces.

    When I was a newbie I learned to utilize painted lines, concrete expansion cracks, old tire tracks or whatever aide that was available. I even used rocks as visual aides. Half your nose swing is when you want to start getting back under the trailer is about the only geometry you'll use. The ideal back is just the opposite of pulling away from a dock. So newbies take note how you pull away from a dock.

    Problem backers first have to learn the concept of backing. No pamphlet will teach them that. I found that sitting down with someone at a table with a toy tractor trailer does wonders teaching that problem student. Seeing it from outside and above a truck gives them a better visualization. I thought I created that but after joining the forum I found others have used that technique too. :) It works.

    The last woman I helped was clueless. She failed the obstacle course twice and had one more shot. We went to Walmart and bought a toy truck. I sat down with her and then let her play with it all night ( get your mind of the gutter) lol. The next day we went back out to the course and I've seen an immediate improvement. The next day she passed and got her CDL. She is still driving today with her husband. Oh yeah, we took the truck back for a refund.
     
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  5. pattyj

    pattyj Road Train Member

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    had to laugh at one piticular sentence,lol.
     
  6. FlexinTarzan

    FlexinTarzan Medium Load Member

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    Some Folks learn different ways....at the end of the day, experience is learned.
     
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  7. Florida Playboy

    Florida Playboy Road Train Member

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    I just back by the seat of of my pants. Go with the flow if you will. Only experience can teach it.
     
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  8. "Hang - Man"

    "Hang - Man" Heavy Load Member

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    Nov 12, 2013
    Western PA
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    I am sorry, no disrespect but "Holy Smokes" Donvineland that was complicated --i tried to follow what you posted but i am a visual person, what you posted may be perfect for someone that comprehend the written info better than me, and you might have just taught a bunch of drivers how to back up -but just the fear of putting a marker on the ground ( i suppose you mean mentally) and having another driver see me do that would make me "get" backing up down pat quickly.
    I did see a you tube video that someone made using the techniques you just described - i will be honest i just couldn't get through the whole thing.
    LOl Flat beds do have to back up, maybe not between trucks at the shippers, receivers as much but there are regular rear loading docks, and i seem to remember a lot of bed level docks with walls on both sides. one mill had a long serpentine dock you had to back into-it was in Butler PA, not to mention the truck stops.

    But i totally get where your coming from - a little more analytical than most -but keep up the good work.
    Going to reread what you posted and see if i can get a mental image.
     
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  9. Numb

    Numb Crusty Curmudgeon

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    Donvineland; that was interesting and informative.

    if it works for someone,that's all that matters.

    Condo;

    I used the toy truck method myself many moons ago.lol

    also have laid down my glove or a squashed soda can as a marker.
     
  10. Powder Joints

    Powder Joints Subjective Prognosticator

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    Making this much too difficult. Reading and following this is much more difficult than avan blindside backing
     
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  11. Caynnor

    Caynnor Light Load Member

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    Sep 29, 2013
    Covina, Ca
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    My bosses son wants to learn to drive our straight trucks since he will be running the company some day and I couldn't teach him to back because I was never taught, I just do it.
     
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