Full load, grades, no engine brake

TonytheTruckerDude, if you are happy with the light steady pressure technique that is fine with me. God bless you. Good luck. No hard feelings.
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.However, since this is the forum "Questions from new drivers", I will refer new drivers to the current Commercial Drivers Manual. In the the section on mountain driving, they give explicit, detailed and step-by-step instructions on decending a steep mountain grade. The manual only describes Snub Braking. There is no mention of light steady pressure anywhere in that section.
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.Additionally, on the CDL test they ask a question on descending a steep mountain grade. The correct answer is Snub braking or the definition of Snub braking. Light steady pressure is NOT a correct answer.
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.Please allow me to correct you on one point. Snub braking is not fanning the brakes. You start the Snub Braking technique when you reach your safe speed. You apply your brakes firmly enough to reduce your speed to 5 mph under your safe speed and that should take approximately 3 seconds. When your speed is 5 mph less than your safe speed you release your brakes. You repeat as needed.
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.Fanning the brakes implies you just start pumping and releasing the brakes. Snub braking is completely different in that it has a specific condition when you start braking and a specific condition when you release your brakes.
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.And to a previous poster, Snub braking produces lower brake temperatures than light steady pressure. The testing has already been done. Thermal imaging has proven, I said proven, that Snub braking produces lower brake temperatures than light steady pressure. That is why the Cdl manual section on mountain driving says nothing about light steady pressure and the written cdl test does NOT accept light steady pressure as a correct answer for a question on descending steep mountain grades.
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.If you want to continue using light steady pressure, go ahead. I get paid the same money no matter which braking technique you use. But, you are using the second best braking technique on steep grades that is available to you. No current cdl manual endorses light steady pressure when descending a steep grade and no approved school teaches it.
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.Safe travels to all.

 

It always easier after the first time. No Jake at anytime. Pick the right gear(3-5)brake application is steady with throttle application and Interlock engaged. Power brake the Truck down the hill. Sometimes if your lucky enough to have a ditch on the side of the goat trail you can drag your trailer in it. And sometimes you throw the Iron when the dirt is ground up into 2 feet of powder. Never wear a seat belt and don't lock your door.

 

I didn't read all the replies but I did it for 9 years pulling sets before I finally got a newer truck with an engine brake this year. I ran two different line-haul runs that were mostly two lane roads or 4 lane US highways in Pa.

First thing is know your gears - know what speed produces what rpm. At that time most of our trucks were 7 speeds and I knew I could let it run up to about 30 in 4'th before the rpm's got too high when descending a grade. Most of the posted hills were 20 mph so depending on weight and road conditions I would drop in 3'rd or 4'th which would be roughly 6'th or 7'th with a ten speed.

I always used the stab brake to slow about 5 mph in a few seconds and never smoked the brakes. The only time I used steady pressure was when the roads were slick because I didn't want to lock up the back box and the last thing I wanted was the rpm's to wind up and have the tractor start sliding. I went over 10 and 11% grades on US 22 maxed out with no jake on dry and snow covered roads using those techniques and never had a problem.

In my opinion engine brakes are kinda like a gps - it's a great tool and you should have one but you should also know how to do if without one because it doesn't work for all situations.

 

Xcis, Thanks for the correction...I was not aware that I was so far behind the times. But let me explain my position, and it will my last in this thread, you and I have a different take on this and that is fine. Your way works for you , mine did for me for many , many years.

I started driving a semi as a teenager , My uncle ran a decent sized dairy farm right outside of Wytheville Va. in the community of Max Meadows. In the summers I would go up there and help out and to also make myself some summertime cash, now this was in the mid 60's. He had an older model Mack single screw with a tag axle and a 5,000 gal. tanker. When it came time to deliver the milk to the dairy in High Point , NC I would tag along to help keep him awake on the trip back home...remember now this was before the interstate was built through that area for the most part...all 2-lane roads til you got to hwy 52 in NC.

As I got older he would let me drive a little at a time til I got the hang of it, and before long I was driving most of the way back home after we dropped off in High Point. This was when you had to come down the old way on Fancy Gap from Hillsville to Mt Airey...If you've ever been that way in a car it is a very pretty ride, but from Hillsville down the mtn. it could be a "killer" and did take more than a few drivers lives. That hill was where my uncle taught me to drive a truck down a mtn. Now I'm not a super-trucker b/c of that that just an older one...I never even heard of an engine brake of any kind until the mid 80's. I never went to a driving school other than the roads between Max Meadows and High Point...now you say that the Snub Braking is taught in schools now and like all technology the only thing that IS CONSTANT is CHANGE..I'm sure on that we both agree. I'm not gonna try and convince you that Snub Braking doesn't work....but I'm not gonna let you convince me that the way I was taught was the wrong way either...and I'll add, that you have not tried to do that.

Some of the older guys that frequent this site know just how challenging Fancy Gap was back then , and I'm sure they'll agree that it had a very high "pucker factor" too. Stay safe Xcis, I appreciate the chance to explain my "side" ........ T

 

Part of the requirement when out with a trainer is to descend two major mountains without the jake and one.with. By major mean, Cabbage, Donner, Grapevine, Tehatchipi headed west etc...

I actually first used a Jake in the Army in an M915 in 1980. The M915 was a semi automatic so no clutch... the third pedal was the jake.

 

I use the correct gear, and steady pressure. I know what the book says now. That was written in after many trucks got jake brakes and the size and quality of brakes improved greatly. Using snub braking on a 1960's or even a 70's truck will get you burnt up brakes. Many trucks did not have brakes on the steering axle in those days, and very small shoes and drums. I owned one of those trucks.

I will make a bet with anyone using snub braking. We will both leave Flagstaff going toward Phoenix, grossed out. We use no jake, and use an infa-red themometer to check out hub temps before we leave. When we get to the rest area at the bottom of the mountain, we check our hub temps. I will bet my hubs will be cooler than yours. Steady pressure will work better IF you know how to do it, but you need to select the right gear where you don't need to apply over 10 lbs application pressure.

I don't like to argue this point, as too many believe something in a book written by a person that has never been in a truck is the only 100% way to do things. Plus, have you ever tried to sleep when someone is stabbing the brakes every few seconds?

We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

 

Your statement shows old timer foolery. Alot of things were differently "back in the day"; that doesnt mean it's the best way. Look at asbestos, great for sound and fire insulation but it will kill you.............

As far as that story you wrote about, I dont care what "yall" use to do!! I only care about the future of trucking which entails letting new guys know the most current way of perferred methods. I know you dont have good reading comprehension skills but I have driven my truck wothout jakes since I purchased it...

You dare me?? We arent in middle school...........


FYI, reading posts like yours is why "new breeds" dont listen, dont care to listen, or even respect most ol' timers!! I'm far from a newbie, BUT I am part of the new breed that likes to keep up with technology and new ideas and ways of doing things because I realize things constantly change..........

 

I may be new to trucking but I've got enough mechanic experience to know which leads to more wear and tear on a L/O or O/O's truck and it sure isn't the engine brake. To my knowledge a prime factor in profitability is micro managing your variable costs and going easier on your service brakes is never a bad thing so long as you can remain in control of your rig.

 

Why the Interlock? I've never heard that.

 

You sure about that???