Dump Trailers, Frame Vs. Frameless

Here in IL, there are quite a few 1/4 frame trailers used in construction. Both my brother and I each have one. Seems some companies prefer them to be used when paving around super-elevated curves and on curves in general. Ours are 22', one air ride and the other center point spring. I don't see where one is less stable than the other, but I think you almost have to try to tip a 22' trailer over.

 

Dutchman, I also have enjoyed the different ways of using equipment. Curious though, how do people feed a paver out there, blacktop or concrete, with a frameless? The ONLY dumps used to feed a paver around here are quarter frame, and a very few old frame trailers. We also call them high dumps. you need the height to clear the hopper.
Like Gambi said, you need 8 on the ground to work curves and especially exit / entrance ramps. Everything construction related around here is 22 to 24 foot length.

Back to the original question of this thread, I also have a 38 foot tri axle frameless that is 50 yard. I like it because you can load it a little heavy on the rear and not be over on any axles # 80000. I never have to try to shift a load, which never seems to work anyhow! Mostly use it for demo now, but I did also haul a little corn this fall, little over 900 bushel # 80000, maybe a little more! I'll be honest though, scares the crap out of me every time I put it up in a landfill, I would need a case of Tums with a 40 footer.

 

We only feed pavers with transfer dumps (ten wheelers) or super dumps (ten wheelers). There are never any trucks with trailers feeding pavers, unless its the bottom dumps layin out the asphalt in front of the paver.

 

jost make a good fifth wheel that block.. that what i got. it take about 5 to 10 minute to change over.i have had both frame and frameless i like both of them.frameless u got to make shore u are level.i pull a frame type now because i dump in place that are not to level alot.and i could not uses a frameless plus i could not get a 39 foot in and frame dump i'm pulling know is a 28 foot tri-axle but i lost ton on paid load but i can axle it out a lot better here in va. they would get me over axle a lot more on 39 foot.happy trucking when u get one!!

 

Where at in N.E. IL? I was up thataway today, Des Plaines and what not. It'd take an awful lot of money to get me to work up there on a regular basis.

 

sorry for the highjack, I grew up in Des Plaines, still work dump around the area,and yes it gets a little nutty with the 4 wheelers

 

The type of work you want to do dictates the wet line kit you install on the truck.

yes, but if you're only going to use the wet line for a 40 ft frameless...........we can figure it out.

A standard dump wet line kit will work any dump trailer, regardless of the trailer size. The only thing you need is oil volume to be able to raise the cylinder to full extension the longer the trailer is

A 50 gallon tank is the industry standard for most hydraulic systems.

This will depend on many different things.. a walking floor needs 50 gallons to keep the oil from foaming with a high volume return to the tank....the extra volume also helps keep the oil cool when off loading heavy loads at high cylinder pressure in the rams for the floor.

A belt floor trailer can use as small as a 10 gallon tank if you install a cooler on the return line to the tank.

A 40 ft dump trailer will not get the oil hot, but needs 50 gallons of oil to raise the cylinder to full extension.

A trailer with a crane attachment needs 50 gallons of oil to be able to have all the cylinders extended with a reserve of oil in the tank to keep air from being introduced into it and foaming.

In a dump trailer application, the pump cavitates sucking air and the cylinder never fully extends to raise the body to dump the product...........you can't get the load off the trailer

The oil gets to hot and you burn up a pump in a walking floor trailer. The hot oil returns into a tank above the fluid level and it becomes aerated, this creates foaming.........you burn up a pump.

In the strict manner of this question.......... No

There are special pumps that are designed to do the work of both types of hydraulic systems. Permco makes a special dump pump that has a second spool valving system built into the pump housing that will do the work for both the dump trailer and walking floor application. If you bought this pump the answer would be.......... yes

A true 3 line wet line is a high pressure, high volume pump.(3500 psi, 25 gallons per minute) The pump is just that...........a pump......it doesn't have any spool valves built into it to control the hydraulic fluid and the work it does. You mount a remote spool valve assembly to control what the oil does. This valve can have as many controls as you want, most trucks are two spool valves. So you would have two high pressure ports and one return port to the different trailers you'd want to hook to. The third line is the low pressure return line from the trailer to the tank on the truck.

Dump trailers cylinders are designed to work at a max pressure of 1800 psi.

Walking floor trailers must have a minimum of 3000 psi.

The remote spool valves can be set to work at different pressure level with relief valves built into them. So you have one set at 1800 psi and it will return fluid back through it-self to raise and lower a dump trailer. The second spool vale you set the relief in as high as it will go this would run a belt trailer, lowboy, walking floor..........you name it........it should do it.

Now a 2 line is a high pressure line and return line............it only works walking floors, lowboy, belt floors........high pressure out and a low pressure return.

Now there is another definition of both the 2 line and 3 line systems that are designed strictly for dump trailers


the two line is what it name implies...........2 line, 1 line comes from the tank to the pump, the second line comes from the pump to the trailer/dump body

3 line is different in that the fluid returns from the pump in a separate return line. So you have

a supply line from the tank to the pump

a pressure line from the pump to the trailer

a return line from the pump to the tank

The advantage of this system is that you can be dumping in a hopper and have to raise the dump body periodically. When you have the controls in the neutral position it allows the pump to move fluid from the tank to the pump back to the tank. This keeps the pump cool. The 2 line system can't pump oil when in neutral and the pump is turning this creates tremendous amount of heat in the pump in a matter of minutes. It will have an early failure if operated and not pumping oil through itself. I always turn these systems off when I have to dump in a hopper and can't raise the body to full extension at one time, but this means I'll need to re-engage the PTO every time I need to raise the body until the trailer is empty.

As much as the market will bare

I don't mean to be a smart-###...............my gut is telling me you shouldn't be jumping into this part of the industry without someone to watch over what you're doing. I've seen too many jump into the dump trailers thinking they were doing the right thing..............they show up at the sand pit bright and early to get their first load on............by the time I made it to the dump end they had already laid the trailers on there side. I've seen guys with twenty years dump trailer experience do it, because they were in a hurry.

Your lack of knowledge scares me...........I'd give you a very wide berth if you were working around me

 

I have tank split (hyd/fuel) at 50 gal. That's enough for me with 40' frameless with 264" cylinder. Also have pump pressure turned up to 2200 psi. With that I barely ever go over 800rpm to get trl up but it sure beats shoveling if trl won't raise last stage. If you do this keep pressure (rpms) low when cyl stage ends and next begins. Even though I disengage pto when trl is not raising, I have a return line. As mr Haney said, I have seen pumps overheat in minutes due to no return line.