Direct vs. OD setups

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by allan5oh, Jun 1, 2014.

  1. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    Kinda tired of other threads getting hijacked with this baloney. Sorry about that rank. Hopefully you get your answer.

    I'm going to try to explain this fully. Please come in with an open mind, there will be a lot of effort here. We're going back to basics here. This is torque flow on a transmission in any gear other than direct:

    Code:
                ---- countershaft ----
    
    Input shaft ----               ---- output ----   Rear box ---- driveshaft
                ---- countershaft ----
    
    The torque comes in the input shaft, gets transferred to the counter shafts via gears, then back to the output (or main shaft) via gears. The input shaft to counter shaft gear part is actually quite short, your gear selection occurs between the countershaft and mainshaft. There's many gears along these and to select a gear we actually slide splines into the inside of the gear. The gears are all different sizes, corresponding to different ratios through the transmission.

    On any transmission in direct the flow is as follows:
    Code:
               ----- countershaft
    Input shaft ------------- output --- rear box --- driveshaft
                ----- countershaft
    
    The countershafts are still attached to the input shaft, but they do not take any torque and are disconnected from the output. the torque goes directly from the input to the output. This presents a serious increase in efficiency. The transmission will run cooler, and there will be a lot less power loss through the driveline. The entire rear half of the driveline will spin slower at the same speed with a lower numerical gear ratio. This further adds to efficiency.

    "But what about hill starts?"
    "But what about pulling hills?"

    The trick is in the transmission. A direct drive 10 speed with 2.64 gears will pull exactly the same as an overdrive 10 speed with 3.55 gears. The 3.55 gears are about 34.4% more aggressive than the 2.64 gears, but each individual gear in the direct transmission is also 34.4% more aggressive! So instead of the gearing being in the diffs, the gearing is further up the driveline allowing a more efficient setup.


    Drawbacks

    Most direct drive setups you can only load up to 80k gross. The Volvo one will allow 110k. Direct drive setups are harder on the driveline because it is spinning slower. If it's spinning slower at the same HP it must have more torque. The other drawback is transmission selection. You can run a direct 10 speed, volvos direct 12 speed i shift, or maybe an 18 speed with its aggressive low gear.
     
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  3. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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  4. Richter

    Richter Road Train Member

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    If someone made a direct 18 speed trans then you could have a lot more options.
     
  5. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    I believe they do exist.
     
  6. nightgunner

    nightgunner Road Train Member

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    How much of a weight difference is there between a straight 10 and a 15 double over or 13 speed?
     
  7. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    Not that much really. 600 lbs or so for the 10, and the 13/15/18s are all around 700 lbs.
     
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  8. Richter

    Richter Road Train Member

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    Link? I've never found an 18 with a direct drive top gear.
     
  9. SHO-TYME

    SHO-TYME Road Train Member

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    The setup Pittsburg Power was doing use 15 and 16 as your top gears.
     
  10. allan5oh

    allan5oh Road Train Member

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    They were from the 80s, I doubt a link exists.
     
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  11. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

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    I never saw 18 direct, 13 direct was definitely available in older 5- and 6-series, for example RT-12513, RT-14613.

    http://www.worldamerican.com/pdf/57.pdf has part lists

    Ratios:

    View attachment 66724

    Here you also see a big disadvantage of these transmissions compared to an 18 speed. Overall ratio spread is only 12.56 on the 15613 compared to 19.72 in an 18-speed.
    If both are geared for the same engine rpm at same road speed (in top hole, 2.6 rear-axle ratio for the direct 13 vs 3.55 for the 18 speed) you will loose a lot of startability on hills.
    Once you are rolling and out of the lower gears, the differences are too small to tell.


    Which is the most fuel efficient? There is no straight answer, it all depends on the application.

    If you spend a lot of time in top gear (or: burn the most fuel in top gear) the direct transmission will be better.
    If you spend a lot of time 1 full gear down, because of hills, heavy loads, the OD 18 will probably be the better choice.


    My opinion (and it is just that, just my opinion): make the gear where you burn most of your fuel the most efficient (=direct)

    If on a typical trip you burn 500 gallons while cruising on the highway, but only 100 gallon in the other gears, optimize the gear you use for cruising (direct in transmission, as an example 16th in an 18 speed, and numerically small ratio in rear axle, for example 2.64)

    If on a typical trip, you spent a lot of time 1 full gear down (heavy load, hills, engine at high load so consumption will be high mpg will be low) and you burn most of your fuel in this gear, for example 300 gallon, and 300 gallon for the other gears combined, optimize this gear.

    So you end up with 2 scenarios (just as an example):
    18 speed with 2.64, cruising in 16th (direct), engine rpm's will be almost exactly the same, but you loose startability in the hills, best efficiency at cruise
    18 speed with 3.55, cruising in 18th, better starability on hills/heavy loads, same engine rpm's at cruise, best efficiency 1 full gear down
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
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