Definition of "laden" for personal conveyance provision

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by MudBugs82, May 23, 2012.

  1. MudBugs82

    MudBugs82 Bobtail Member

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    I need some further guidance on the personal conveyance provision found in FMCSR 395.8, Question #26. It says, “A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance.” Got it. My question: What is the definition of "laden?" I know it generally means "loaded," but that seems like a very loose term. Where is the line between loaded and unloaded? I don't believe the FMCSRs address this anywhere. Maybe it would be best to ask by example:

    Example 1 -- If you have a welding machine on the back of an F350, with no trailer, is that laden or unladen? I would think not. (To clarify, this is an F350 with a GCWR of 25,000 lbs used in interstate commerce = it is a CMV.)

    Example 2 -- If you have an empty F350 but are pulling an empty flatbed trailer, is that laden or unladen? Again, I would think not. What about a half-full flatbed? Does it matter how full the trailer is?

    Example 3 -- If you have an empty F350 and are pulling a box trailer with a bunch of tools on it, is that laden or unladen? The tools are heavy but you’re not carrying a huge load in the sense that you're dropping it all off somewhere. Most of this weight is tools used for normal work purposes - wrenches, hoses, fans, etc. But what if you're also carrying items that will be left somewhere? Would those items make this a load and therefore your truck "laden," or would the tools alone make it laden? Does whether a truck is "laden" depend at all on what the truck is carrying/pulling, or is it simply a matter of weight?

    It seems there is no definition and that it's mostly just up to the officer's discretion. My guess is that we all just have to be smart and reasonable. After all, the FMCSRs can't define every word in the regs. But this is important because it appears to me that if the officer determines that you're laden, and you didn't think you were, the personal conveyance provision would be invalidated.

    Any advice or tips on this issue would be very helpful.
     
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  3. Treefork

    Treefork Road Train Member

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    Couldn't you just take down
    Or cover your dot #'s when using it for personal use? It's a pickup truck.
     
  4. truckon

    truckon Swamp Thing

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    It really just means if your working or not.
     
  5. MudBugs82

    MudBugs82 Bobtail Member

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    In most if not all of the cases I'm referring to, the load could not be taken down. For instance, a guy is on a jobsite away from home and wants to go home for the weekend. But the only way he has of doing so is using the company truck, which he has permission to do. If his truck is not "laden," he's good to go -- personal conveyance applies. He's got a welder on the back and he has to keep it on there because he needs it for the next job, which is in a different town. So is the truck laden or not? Huge difference -- especially if he's around 60 hours for the week. Covering up the DOT number would not make a difference for personal conveyance, it would seem to me. Someone feel free to correct me on any of the above.
     
  6. MudBugs82

    MudBugs82 Bobtail Member

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    Truckon -- If you read that question #26 in the FMCSRs, it doesn't leave any room for an interpretation like this. In fact, from what I've heard/read, FMCSA doesn't really care whether you're "working" or being compensated. For instance, a volunteer who drives an 18-passenger church van still falls under DOT. He's not "working" or making any money at all -- but he still needs to fill out logs, etc.
     
  7. Treefork

    Treefork Road Train Member

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    Oh I get you now, he would still have the load in but just heading home with it. I'm not sure then.
     
  8. Tazz

    Tazz Road Train Member

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    A couple threads down in the regulations string. It is somewhat vague and the FMCSA has admitted that there is alot of interpretation. The guidance also states short distances.Do a search or check the industru regulations string some of our DOT members offered their insight. Well DB did before he left.
     
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  9. Semi Crazy

    Semi Crazy Road Train Member

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    The welder is bolted to the truck I assume. Not a piece of freight.

    The empty trailer would mean you are unladen.

    The tool trailer would make you laden. It's got a load of equipment.

    My 2 cents...

    You must also be not under dispatch.
     
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  10. MrEd

    MrEd Road Train Member

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    Basically, if you have anything on the truck, covered by a bill of lading, that you are enroute to deliver, you are "laden". Weight or volume of the stuff isn't relevant. Also, if you are unladen but on the way to get loaded, you can't be on personal conveyance. To be safe, if you are fairly sure you are supposed to be on line 4, the DOT officer will be sure too.
     
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  11. jgremlin

    jgremlin Heavy Load Member

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    My opinion is if the object(s) you are carrying have a bill of lading or anything remotely acting in the capacity of a bill of lading (even if it doesn't say 'bill of lading' on it) then you are laden. If the truck/trailer is empty or carrying only your own tools for which there is no transport paperwork, then you are unladen. But that is my opinion. The opinion that really counts is that of the DOT officer who pulls you over.
     
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