Cat C15 starter question.

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by TruckNorris, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. TruckNorris

    TruckNorris Light Load Member

    71
    20
    Apr 7, 2012
    Oshkosh, WI
    0
    So a little background; two weeks ago I bought a Pete 387 with a c15. The guy I bought the truck from is an old family friend, and was up front with any and all issues it has. The one thing that's relevant to this was that every now and then when he'd go to start it, it wouldn't start. He says he would just turn the key off, then back on and let it cycle, then it would start. He says it's done it ever since he's had the truck but always started the second time.

    Fast forward to a week ago and it happened, turn the key and nothing, no click, no sign of it trying to engage the starter nothing, turn the key of and back on, starts without a hitch.

    Now to just a few minuets ago; I pull over to take a 30. Idle the truck to cool it if she shut it down. Take my break and go to start it, it fires up but running odd. Go to shut it off and it stays running, instantly from my previous automotive experience I recognise the starter is staying engaged. Pop the hood, hit the starter, nothing. Get it turn the key to run and back off a few times nothing, turn it to start, still nothing. About ready to pull the batteries, but try turning it to start a second time and magically it works. Disengages and runs like normal.


    My question is what's causing these? I'm guessing starter solenoid or starter relay switch? This is my first experience with cat motors, so I'd like some input before I dig into it. Needless to say it's not getting shut down until I get home.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. GrapeApe

    GrapeApe Road Train Member

    2,215
    2,211
    Jan 7, 2013
    0
    As far is the not cranking problem, your starter lockout is controlled by the Namux ECM, which powers a relay based on the programmed inputs, like a clutch switch, neutral safety (automatic), whether or not it thinks it already running, etc. You usually have to turn the key on, wait for the gauges to sweep before the Namux will allow cranking. If you try too soon, nothing happens. That's normal.

    If that's not the issue, you can figure out if the issue is on the Namux side or the key switch/starter side by jumping the starter lockout relay. If you don't have the issue with the relay jumped, there is something going on the Namux side preventing cranking.

    The most likely cause for a starter staying engaged is a stuck solenoid. If it has the original starter it's probably a 39MT (or the Paccar copy of one) and has 2 solenoids. Either one sticking will cause the starter to stay engaged. It could also be something else powering the start wire or a mechanical issue not allowing the gear to retract, but solenoids are the more common cause.
     
  4. Chris50

    Chris50 Medium Load Member

    346
    215
    Jun 21, 2010
    Florida
    0
    Just to save you the trouble if you cant get it to turn off again, look at the battery connections and you should have 2 or 3 small wires with inline fuses going to a positive post. Just pull the fuses till the motor turns off.
     
  5. simon999

    simon999 Light Load Member

    240
    95
    Feb 6, 2014
    0
    Most likely its starter solenoid stigking. When truck is cold you have no problem, but when hot metal parts in the solenoid sticking. If its 39mt starter they have them a lot with defective solenoids. I already replaced two starters on my truck: one after a year, another after a month.
     
  6. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

    34,017
    42,129
    Mar 5, 2016
    White County, Arkansas
    0
    It's going to be a solenoid. The previous posters filled you in with great detail more than I can say.

    I remember a mack that failed to crank, used a bic pen shoved into the solenoid on the right hand side to get it kicked over once or twice. I realize this is not a Cat engine, but those kinds of lessons tend to be useful.

    Give that engine a chance to go through it's boot up seeing the gauges sweep and back. Otherwise check your batteries for voltage and load amps.

    Another lesson with Cat I learned. You can smell overheating coolant and wonder now what? While driving all day. But the moment you shut it off as I did for sleep the water pump cools off and contracts allowing all the fluid to pool under you and your neighbors to both sides. Those Cats will run their hearts out for you even if they are hurting with a leak.
     
  7. TruckNorris

    TruckNorris Light Load Member

    71
    20
    Apr 7, 2012
    Oshkosh, WI
    0
    Thank you guys for the responses. I should say I always let the gauges sweep before starting, so that isn't the issue.

    GrapeApe; where is the relay located? Should I try jumping it and just leave it that way for a month or two and see if it acts up anymore, or?

    Chris50; thanks for that tip, sure would be easier then pulling the cables. I'll keep it in mind.

    Simon999; that's exactly what happened, I was running the truck hard and let it only sit a bit before starting it back up, it would make sense if the starter was still hot.

    X1Heavy; I've noticed that smell your talking about, this motor does seem to just go, I'm looking forward to running it.
     
  8. GrapeApe

    GrapeApe Road Train Member

    2,215
    2,211
    Jan 7, 2013
    0
    I overlooked the 387 part and was thinking 388/389 (newer stuff with namux). I'm not sure how your starter is wired, I think you only have 1 main starter relay, not the extra safety interlock relay. Let me look up a schematic and I'll let you know. What year 387 do you have?
     
  9. TruckNorris

    TruckNorris Light Load Member

    71
    20
    Apr 7, 2012
    Oshkosh, WI
    0

    2006, thank you
     
  10. GrapeApe

    GrapeApe Road Train Member

    2,215
    2,211
    Jan 7, 2013
    0
    OK, you only have 1 starter relay that should be in your fuse panel behind the glove box. DO NOT jump it, if you jump it, it will start cranking. They're not expensive, you can replace it to try, if that's not it you have a spare to keep in the truck just in case.

    I'm thinking that you have more of a stater solenoid issue now. Or possibly a problem with the thermal protection switch on the starter is it has one. It's probably a 42 MT starter in a 2006, which will be the big heavy iron one. If it's never been changed, 10 years is a pretty long time for those. I'd recommend replacing it with a 39 MT, which is lighter, higher torque and have less failures. Better to do it now than loose a load and pay double for a road failure when it fails.

    Here is a schematic for your whole truck. The ignition switch side of the starter is on page 5.
    387Schem.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

    TruckNorris Thanks this.
  11. TruckNorris

    TruckNorris Light Load Member

    71
    20
    Apr 7, 2012
    Oshkosh, WI
    0

    That's incredibly helpful, thank you.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.