Braking Issues

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by MX127, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. MX127

    MX127 Bobtail Member

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    Dec 24, 2019
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    My truck has very sensitive braking on the drives, uncontrollable during slippery road conditions and can be unpredictable. The drives load up violently, locking at times. More noticeably is the final drive. Almost nothing occurs between 4 psi-15 psi then, the brakes violently hit the drums.

    All mechanical braking components are new, brakes and push rods adjusted. Parts thus far are as follows; New S-cams, pads, drums, slacks, chambers and wheel seals as well, and no oil contamination on pads or drums, new quick release valve (QRC) located under the catwalk drivers side.

    The new mechanical components made noticeable improvements, however the sensitive locking issue remains.

    My thoughts and questions;

    When a truck is equipped with only a single R-12 bendix valve, how are the parking brake springs governed? Is it via the tractor protection valve (TPV)? If so, can a faulty (TPV) cause dual braking (brake compounding) activating both service and parking brake springs, simultaneously loading the slack adjusters with a greater force than applied by the driver following the treadle valve? My last drive has chambers piggybacked with parking brakes, following the yellow air line may lead to the (TPV) or possibly a (R-14).

    This week, I began with picking up a new treadle valve, the top also ("plunger/piston"?) rubber boot, that mounts under the foot pedal and a new R-12 valve. I haven't installed them yet, but the more I think on it, leads me to believe I may need to begin with the (TPV). Unless I failed to locate a R-14 bendix valve on my truck, the next in line would be the (TPV).

    The (R-14) is a separate valve that controls parking brake spring air activated via (TPV), and used to prevent brake spring compounding.

    Ruling out possibilities, this happens bobtail or loaded, so a faulty service brake check valve (prevents trailer air from compounding with service brakes) would not be the cause.

    So far, no anti-lock (ABS) light, tractor or trailer. Two diagnoses at the dealership yeilding no answers. The technician claimed nothing is wrong with the (ABS) system since the abs light(s) hasn't luminated.

    I have read forums describing these exact symptoms. In one case it was the treadle valve, the other (TPV), but the last did not come to a conclusion, however, commentators were ruling the possibility of a faulty R-12.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you for your consideration.
    1999 K.W. W900L

    Any information is greatly appreciated, thank you for the video posting.
     
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  3. Moosetek13

    Moosetek13 Road Train Member

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    There was a video posting?
    Shucks, I missed it.

    The rest was all Greek to me.
    I am not the mechanic you seem to be, but then no one else you brought this to was able to diagnose it either.

    Maybe a different pad material would change things?
    Softer or harder I don't know. And I don't even know if different type linings are even available.
    Much to choose from the the car world, but in the truck world?
     
    MX127 Thanks this.
  4. dibstr

    dibstr Road Train Member

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    A few comments and ideas that may help you.

    The R-12 and R14 are basically the same valve except the R-14 adds anti compounding and quick release features. This allows it to be used as a spring brake relay valve or a service brake relay valve. I can’t imagine a mfg putting a 12 and a 14 on the same vehicle either two 14’s or a 12 and another spring brake relay valve. Since you stated you have an R-12 there should be no 14 but another spring brake valve but there should be one.

    The problem occurs when you are bobtail and I’m guessing but likely you have a TP-3, and if so it’s not your problem. Reason being is that when you are bobtail there is no air going to the TPV, it’s totally out of the loop. If my memory is right a TPV-2 does but I’ve never seen one.

    Concerning what you have read on other forums. The treadle valve is a definite possibility and would be my first choice of being the culprit as if it isn’t modulating properly the symptoms you describe fit perfectly. The TPV, I would believe someone was making that up or the problem fixed itself (it happens) after replacing the wrong part. My 2nd choice for the culprit would be the R-12.

    $2.00 bet on the foot valve!
     
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  5. baha

    baha Road Train Member

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    The Crack pressure is wrong, it is not matched with the other service valve on the truck,All valves are sold wih a tag showing what the crack press. is, crack press. is the amount of air coming from foot valve before brakes start pushing shoes into drums?
     
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  6. MX127

    MX127 Bobtail Member

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    Dec 24, 2019
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    Thank you! Yes, the issue occurs bobtailing and also pulling a trailer. Seeing no changes are affected loaded or unloaded, I have ruled out the possibility of a faulty check valve.

    Thank you for the mfg info one (r-12) or the other (r-14).

    Dealing with compound, air psi or spring, one or the other. I'll keep you all posted when the install is complete, hoping by the 27th.
     
  7. MX127

    MX127 Bobtail Member

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    Yes, I was the valve tag is stamped with the crack psi. I read also crack psi can be affected by a contaminated valve housing cylinder ect, possibly affecting the stroke of the diaphragm to open at different psi. It could be anything at this point, hoping to rule out building replacement the valve body r12.
     
  8. MX127

    MX127 Bobtail Member

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    Sorry, no video, not sure how I managed to slip that in the end there.

    Yes, I'm not sure on truck about different linings, however I am running Eaton brakes shoes, and they take some time to break into the curvature of the drums to seat properly.

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  9. baha

    baha Road Train Member

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    The Crack # on the tag on side on sev. valve of ft. axle and the 1st drive axle and 2ed drive axle should all read the same crack # on all three, then on trailer the # should be a lesser # cause you want trailer brakes to start braking 1st to keep truck from going haywire on wet roads, someone may have put a rebuilt service valve on rear axle and it needs to be replaced, they are not much money only buy new valves
     
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  10. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    That is one issue I hope you can fix.

    I will not drive a truck with or without trailer that have auto slam hard braking. I need my brakes to either provide 1 psi application and stretch everything out in a storm or lots of good braking if need be in a emergency. I cannot have a tractor with or without a trailer that is mindlessly slamming brakes (That includes modern radar governed braking systems, I wont accept those either.)

    if it was me I would be looking at the service foot brake on the cab floor first.
     
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  11. 062

    062 Road Train Member

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    You said nothing happens between 4-15psi. I’d have someone apply the brakes and watch your steer axle brakes, and see what they are doing. It could be they’re not activating until a certain psi. Causing it to feel like it’s coming from the rear end.
     
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